Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 10:03:29 0500
To: Rob Weinberg
From: Frank Grose
Subject: Re: Happy Rosh Hashana
Rob,
Wow! A double barrel load of double 00 buckshot... and me without a flack vest! I guess I should be expecting apples when I shake the tree, huh?!? ; ) Seriously, your response was an eye opener for me. Thank you for being open and honest in your reply. I appreciate your sharing your feelings on the subject. Yes, it does help me see things from a different perspective.
Failing to include someone because their religious beliefs differ is not much different than intentionally excluding them. Having a legislative Christian prayer breakfast isn't exactly an open invitation to people of my persuasion.
Are you actually not invited? Or is the invitation to such an event the objection? Or is it that they are being held at all?
And yet, there in the halls of power, the deals are made. The theory is that Christ is there and blessing what is done, yet I'm excluded.
Are you excluded, or do you decline? Could exclusion be out of respect for your religion? Now if you were an employee of mine and our group was invited to a barbeque (pork), I'd make sure you were invited but advised of the menu. If I were hosting, and I'd ensure there was food there that you would not find objectionable. I once had an Orthodox Jew trainee in my basic training company. With the help of a Jewish chaplain, we provided kosher food for him.
There are a lot of places you go to, that people wouldn't go out of their way to invite me to. And I can come and go in many places like that because I'm not that semitic looking and I've learned how to walk the walk and talk the talk.
That saddens me. I'd like to hope that some of those actions, inexcusable as they may be, are because of their lack of knowledge of what is objectionable to a Jewish person, and attempt to avoid a possible embarrassing situation (or learning how to accommodate them properly). I wanted to invite this Orthodox fellow out to lunch, but I didn't know anywhere kosher to go. I think he sensed that and informed me he ate in his office. He invited me there to meet with him. You should not have to "hide" your ethnicity, but I can understand trying to blend in with your associates. Let me admit something to you. I am so non-sensitive (perhaps naive) regarding race, it never dawned on me that Rob "Weinberg" might be Jewish. I'm learning!
Tough Love Time. The "Christian right" is a threat, and a big one. It may pay lip service, but it does not promote tolerance of different faiths. Instead, it insists on one way toward salvation, THEIR way. And everyone else is wrong, and therefore going to hell.
I suppose "reality" is how you perceive it. Our perception is somewhat different here, however. Not one right and one wrong, just different. First, I don't know if I am part of the "Christian right" I am a Christian, and I am conservative in my political views. I am pro life, and feel that homosexual activity is an abomination before God. I'd certainly be labeled by some as a right wing fundamentalist Christian whacko, but then my mother taught me something about sticks and stones and words. I was born and grew up in the hills of Virginia. Prior to going in the Army, I lived and worked in Cincinnati, for Jews and with Jews and Blacks. I caught a lot of kidding because of my hillbilly accent. Hey, it was them that talked funny, but I was in the minority. ; ) My skin is pretty thick, however.
I do believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, and is Truth. As a Christian, I serve the same God as the Jew. I do accept the deity of Jesus Christ. To me, the prophesies were so clear, it is amazing to me that the Jewish leadership at the time failed to recognize that He was their Messiah. The prophesy in Daniel 9:25 26 was fulfilled, to the day. I don't know how Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 can be read without recognizing their mistake. Twelve times in the book of Acts, Jesus Christ is presented entirely from the Old Testament. There is so much messianic symbolism in the Passover Seder, that Christ is the "Lamb of God," it is not even subtle. I also recognize that these are difficult for the Jew to understand. Okay, now it is time for your turn at tough love. You see, in Luke 19:41 44 we find the account of when Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem (on the 10th of Nisan when the Passover lambs were being presented to the priests). Luke 19:41 "And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, (42) Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. (43) For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, (44) And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation." The spiritual blindness is still upon the Jewish people. Paul wrote in Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." It is my firm belief that, "time of the Gentiles" is about up, when, once again God will again begin dealing with Israel. During the "time of Jacob's trouble," Israel will realize their mistake, and pray for their rejected Messiah to return. And He will. Taken as a whole, the Bible authenticates itself. The picture is complete. I'd love to give you more scripture, but you might begin to think I am preaching to you. (And I might have to plead guilty to that charge.) I hope that wasn't too tough. But this is what I believe. And if it is true that God did provide his son as a one time sacrifice for the sins of mankind, then what Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." is also true. Therefore, if one accepts that belief, it automatically excludes all other "supposed" paths to God, doesn't it.
Let me quickly add that, as a Christian, I would like to see everyone accept Christ as his Saviour. But I do not try to force that acceptance on anyone against their will. Such is futile. However, I try to encourage folks to be like the Berean Jews in Acts 17:11 who "searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." I'm not picking on you because you are Jewish. I share this with lots of folk. But I recall your earlier comments about "the truth" and the search for it. May I respectfully encourage you to search diligently for "the truth" in God's word. You are more intellectually astute and more objective than most, and, I think, would enjoy the discovery of things you didn't know before. There really is more in the Bible than the casual reader (including most Christians) will ever find. That is why I like the thoroughness of Chuck Missler's teaching. Honestly, I'm sometimes bored with the lack of "meat" in sermons in my own church. So much is left unsaid!
That approach automatically builds in racial intolerance because it assumes moral superiority. Now, if everyone else is wrong (and therefore morally inferior), and yet they SEEM to be doing better than you, that contradiction turns to resentment which turns to animosity, and when you direct that animosity toward an identifiable group, it's racism. It need not take the form of Jew baiting or cross burning to be anti-Semitism, but it manifests itself nonetheless.
Counselor, I'll have to object to your use of the word "automatically" as though this were an absolute with everyone. I will concede that it is far too frequently true.
If Jews seem hypersensitive, it is because they have been taught repeatedly to never forget that history does and will repeat itself unless they are vigilant. Moses led his people out of Egypt and we've been sent from pillar to post ever since. With the possible exception of Denmark during WWII there has never been a country in the world that has protected Jews from the aggression of others who claimed moral superiority. From the crusades to the Spanish Inquisition to the pogroms in tsarist Russia, so many people, Jews especially, have died in the name of Christ that we'd be fools to believe it can't happen again. The nazi concentration camps had barely stopped smoldering by the time you were born. That's not that long ago. It doesn't have to be something as overt as an attack by the neo nazis or the KKK, although enough of those events have happened in my lifetime.
You are absolutely right there! (As Americans, we ought to hold our freedoms dear for the same reason.) I'm doing a two tape study right now called "Betrayal of the Chosen" by Missler. He goes into great detail in the history of Israel, past and present. Also listened to "The Kingdom of Blood" regarding the persecution of the Jews by "the Church" in the name of God (that is conveniently left out of the history books and seminary texts. After that, I can understand why you must be ever vigilant. I'd be happy to share these tapes with you if you like. If you (or your wife) are into Jewish history, you'd appreciate them.
It can be as benign as a school teacher telling a Jewish girl that she is going to hell if she doesn't pray to Jesus. Now, I wouldn't call that benign, but there's a lawsuit about that incident and others in the Pike County School system that was filed only a few MONTHS ago. I'll send you a scan of some articles about it, it you'd like.
I read with sadness the clippings you put on your site for me. Thank you for sharing them. Religion is something that should be used neither as a method nor object or ridicule. Kids are really mean spirited. One of my friends in school had rather large ears that stuck way out. He caught flack every day over them. I agree that the classroom (nor the courtroom) should be a place for evangelism. But I stop short of saying that one should not be free to practice his religion or express his believe in (his particular) God in those places. More on that when I respond with my defense of Judge Moore.
And how does anti-Semitism start? With a person carrying a Bible under his arm offering to lead the way in the name of God. Every single time.
History has proven you more right than not, but lest you think Jews are the only ones, look at N. Ireland, and many other countries around the world. The twentieth century has been pretty rough on Christians elsewhere as well.
I must pause here to ask another (perhaps dumb) question. When you say you are Jewish, are you speaking of your religion or your ancestry? Tell me, could your wife become "Jewish?" Could you become a Christian? If someone says, "I'm Jewish," what am I supposed to understand from that. I was surprised to find that (many) Jews consider all Gentiles to be Christian. We aren't. When I say am a Christian, I am speaking of my relationship with God ('Elohiym), saying nothing at all about my ancestral roots or nationality.
Tough Love Time, Part II: All of that is well and good. Now, Friend, you brought this up, so I'm going to invite you to examine those beliefs a little closer. In one of our first emails you said "I don't have an anti-Semitic bone in my body," something to that effect. I found it interesting that you would have volunteered that and I would have replied in jest, "yeah, some of my best friends are Jews," except you'd already said you didn't known many on a personal level. To say that we are "God's chosen people," or (and you've not said this, but do you think it?) to say Jews are smart, they're naturals at whatever they set their minds to, is to segregate them on the basis of race alone. If I were more of a cynic, or believed you to be less sincere, I'd say you "damn me with faint praise" with compliments like that. It's not a far step from "blacks sure play the blues (or basketball) well," or "the Japanese sure are good with electronics." To say "we love the Jewish people" is (tough love time) paternalistic.
Not a problem. By now I have my flack vest and helmet on! I hope you took no offense at anything I said. If so, I apologize. I meant no offense, rather speaking from my heart. There was no intent to ingratiate either. The Jews are God's chosen people whether we like it or not. The Bible says that, not me. Deu 7:6 "For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth." It is a fact, the world has been blessed by the intellect, and business savvy of the Jews. But I'm not jealous or envious. I'm thankful. I suppose the Jewish community has its share of deadbeats and losers too, else you wouldn't be human. We used to teach "Race Relations" to trainees. I might could add a few to your repertoire of ethnic "accolades." Ever hear the one about ... No, guess I'd better not. I might be running for political office some day.
What do you love about us? What do you know about us? What is there to love?
I love your dedication to what you believe. I admire the dedication of the Orthodox who follow so carefully the Law. I love to study the Jews because in doing so, I learn more of the context of the scriptures; I can get a better understanding and insight into the Bible. I love you because I have compassion for the awful injustices your people have suffered, sadly, at the hands of (so called) Christians. I admit, I don't know a lot, but I'm trying to learn (and your are helping me tremendously in that effort). What is there to love? Indeed, we are both made in the image and likeness of God. If God loves you enough to sacrifice his son for you (and me), who am I not to love you? Sorry, I couldn't resist that. After all, it is tough love time.
I emphasize that YOUR good intentions are not questioned, my friend. I believe you to be honorable and sincere in your beliefs.
I am glad you do recognize my sincerity. This is personally good for me. It is good for someone to hold up a mirror in front of us occasionally. I am grateful to you for that. You cause me to think; to examine my assumptions. I think I shall be a better person because of it. There you go, blessing me again! How could I not love you? ; )
It is said that good intentions pave the road to hell. Part of the problem (and I don't have the answer) is that you (many Christians) are given the mission, as part of YOUR creed and faith, to spread the word of God as its been given to you.
You have a clear understanding of that. But all the while, we must remember the "whosoever will" part. All that means is I have an obligation to tell you or whomever), but no mandate nor authority to force anything on you. What you believe is your choice, and I respect that.
How readily can you accept the idea that if there is a heaven, we may both see each other there, but we'll arrive by different means? Answer that without replying that I'm already one of God's chosen people.
As a Jew, we very well may see each other there, having come by different means? (There is a lot of room for study of the "means," however.)
If I were a Hindu or a Moslem, can I not arrive in God's graces too?
Different category. See Hebrews 9:19 27, especially verse 22.
The history of every overt act of anti-Semitism begins with the answer "no." And "no" is the message the Christian right teaches.
Even in the days of Christ, it was called "The Way." We wouldn't be Christian if we didn't believe that. But to connote anti-Semitism with Christianity is using a very broad brush (Remember, all Chinese like rice.), and rather unfair to those of us that it doesn't fit. Now I'm being persecuted! Sorry, bad joke.
How to turn the attitude around? Whose attitude? Despite their platitudes, the Christian right is an intolerant lot. Actions speak louder than words. How willingly could you avoid (or the Christian right stop) proselytizing? That would go a long way. But I'm not sure I could ask you to do that, as it is an important tenet of your faith.
I suppose all our attitudes need some adjustment, and you've helped me with mine. If sharing my faith is considered proselytizing, I guess it would be rather difficult, because I am excited about it.
Men are basically inferior creatures, looking to understand life by the lowest common denominator, good or bad, black or white, if you're not with me you're agin' me. The Christian right often portrays life that way and, unlike you, many people who follow the "right" do so at the expense of those who don't believe as they do. That is the danger of men like Moore. Men who led the crusades, the pogroms, the inquisitions, who invented the concentration camps, who became grand dragons in the KKK, and so on and so on, all, ALL, had their humble beginnings gathering people to them in the name of God.
I can't do Moore right now! But I have to ask, what is so offensive about hearing someone pray to a god you don't happen to believe in. I used to go to Buddhist temples without getting offended. Were you to invite me to attend a synagogue or seder with you, I'd be delighted. I don't like to hear cursing and vulgar language, that the "non-Christian left" showers us with. Wow the First Amendment is a two edged sword, isn't it?
Whew! That's a lot. Enough for now, eh? But they're very good questions, and your willingness to ask and probe and grapple with the "answers" I reply with is what makes our dialog very worthwhile from where I sit. We must constantly examine ourselves and question our underlying assumptions if we're going to arrive at real communication and hopefully get closer to the truth.
Right, Friend. Better via email than over the dinner table for subjects like this, huh? I enjoy our exchanges very much. You are not the only one (but the only Jew) that I dialogue with on scriptural topics. None of us know it all... yet!
Oh yes, I forgot to comment on something from a previous message:
When Hillel, one of the revered Jewish sages, was challenged to teach the Torah while standing on one foot, he gave the famous reply: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The rest is commentary. Now, go and learn."
I like that! What period was he living? I see no conflict with that and what Jesus said in Matthew 22:37 40 "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."
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