Prayer protest leads to student suspensions
Students had refused to return to class
By Laranda Nichols
Times Staff WriterALBERTVILLE — Protests of a prayer ban ruling by a federal judge escalated in Albertville Wednesday with some 50 students leaving campus and refusing to return to classes.
Dr. Jim Pratt, superintendent of Albertville city schools, said students from Alabama Avenue Middle School left campus after a prayer protest Wednesday morning and walked several blocks to the city hall, where they demonstrated their disapproval of U.S. District Judge Ira Dement's ruling.
Pratt said he and Assistant Principal Lynn Brothers explained the ruling to the students and then told them they were risking suspension if they did not return to their campus.
"We told them the judge's order did not prohibit praying but that it just couldn't be done over the public address system or in a way to infringe on the rights of others." Pratt said.
The superintendent said the students were told they would be given an unexcused tardy if they returned to class immediately but would be suspended if they did not return. Most didn't, and were suspended for Wednesday and today, he said, with those students allowed to return to school Friday.
The Huntsville Times, Thursday November 6, 1997
Editorial
Jesus was right; so is DeMentWhy is it that some Christians and most politicians want to ignore the teachings of Jesus about prayer? We have to go no further than his sermon on the mount to understand what Jesus thought of those who prayed aloud on the corners of the streets and in the synagogues so that they would be seen and heard of men. "Hypocrites," he said.
St. Matthew, verses five through eight, should be read aloud in Religion 101. Open your King James version and read with us:
"5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are; for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you. They have their reward.
"6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and they Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
"7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do; for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them; for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him."
Jesus' instructions about giving to the poor and fasting in the same sermon were similar: "Take heed that ye do not your alms (giving) before men, to be seen of them; otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is not in heaven." Verse 1. "Moreover, when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of a sad countenance; for they disfigure their faces, that they may appear unto men to fast." Verse 16.
Does it take more than a plain reading of the scriptures for well-meaning Christians to understand how and when to pray? In verses 9-13 Jesus even laid out the words for us and if you read "The Lord's Prayer" it pretty-much covers everything.
Montgomery Independent, Thursday November 6, 1997
Date: Thu, 06 Nov 1997 06:42:51 0600
To: Rob Weinberg
From: Frank Grose
Subject: Re: The Pray Fray
Rob,
Glad to hear it. For our discussions I'll assign to you the task of defining how to ensure against such things in the future when men use their government positions for religious purposes.
Wow, Coach! Sounds like you want me to run a touchdown from the opening kickoff. We haven't agreed on a definition of "religion" yet. So we would surely disagree on my solution (if I had one).
Let me tell you how I see the "religious purpose" charge. Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, giving my personal opinion (although I think my view are generally shared withing the Christian (and I use that term broadly) community. I have a group of friends who are honest, moral, Christian men. We have lunch together rather frequently and discuss religion, politics and the economy. I know these men's hearts. I can assure you that they (we) do not desire to offend anyone, nor do they want to see anyone being offended by a religious practice or expression.
I understand "evangelism" and I understand "prayer." But I really don't feel like I understand "religious purposes" or "promoting religion" as used in cases against religious expression. Let me relate a little story that may help you understand what I shall be trying to say. There was once a little boy who lived near a sea port. He dreamed of becoming a captain. When he grew up, he bought himself an old used fishing boat. He proudly exclaimed to his mother, "Now, I am a captain!" His mother lovingly said, "Son, to you, you are a captain. To me, you are a captain. But to a captain, are you a captain?"
In terms of evangelism, a prayer at a football game or in a courtroom just don't qualify. So it can't be "promoting religion" as I perceive the term. For someone to claim it is, is considered baseless and ridiculous, for those of us who know better. Also, it seems like a giant stretch of the imagination to claim that a coach, principal, or teacher (or even a visiting minister at a football game) is "a government employee using his job for religious purposes." (Now that we are a team, won't feel like I'm aiding and abetting "the enemy" to tell you this.) The use of such ridiculous terms can only be viewed as a baseless attack on Christianity. Really, those kind of expressions are as trite to us as "activist judges" and the like are to you. To be taken seriously, those prone to use such must avoid it, and use more factual and substantive arguments. My feeling is that if you can facts and reason, convince me that a prayer at a football game is truly injurious to others, I'd me inclined to stop the practice. That side has never made that kind of convincing case. Sorry, but the "embarrassment" or making him feel "uncomfortable" argument is unacceptable. We are all embarrassed or feel uncomfortable from time to time. That is life, and our government doesn't guarantee freedom from embarrassment. You know how you said you didn't look Jewish and you didn't make a big deal of being or feeling different/uncomfortable in a group of non Jews? Now would you really be embarrassed at a football game to just stand and look at your shoes while a prayer was being said? Who would know you didn't believe in the prayer or the God to whom it was directed? You'd only be embarrassed if you did or said something to attract attention to yourself. Now if you could stand there quietly and "endure" the prayer, would you have 1) been injured, 2) been embarrassed, 3) felt intimidated, 4) felt coerced to "get saved," or 5) join a particular church or denomination? You would probably say that you could do it without any of the above, but some weaker soul might not. If they are that weak, then it is them that has the problem. We can't live our lives individually or collectively in great fear of someone getting their precious little feelings hurt. It just isn't reality. No one cares about my feelings when I have to drive by a large billboard advertising the "Boobie Bungalow." (No joke. It is in Elkton, TN.) It is okay for Christians to hear cursing and vulgar language in the public arena and on TV. Note how many more "God d___s" you hear at a football game that "God blesses," yet hearing the name of God in a curse are not offended by it. It is only when a Christian is using it reverently that results in charges of "religious purpose" or "promoting religion." To one who promotes religion, prayer at a ballgame certainly is not that.
Wow! That was an excessively long explanation to tell you why I would have trouble with my "assignment." Please feel free to withhold the "legal" argument to the above. Personal opinions and feelings to help us get closer to a common understanding of such terms would be great, now or later as we get more use to working together.
I honestly can't predict what'll happen next, although I can see a number of options for the players, including Judge DeMent. I'm told my office has filed a notice of appeal from Judge DeMent's order ....
I saw an AP article in the paper yesterday that indicated that was the plan.
The next question is: if I were Judge DeMent, what would I do? ... Whoo boy! This is a law professor's dream hypothetical.
“The AP article carried some rather positive statements from the Governor as well. Being an assistant (or is it THE assistant) Attorney General, and holding the convictions about such issues as you do, how would/could you defend him? Would defending him not be part of your job description?”
Forgive me for being ambiguous. I meant could you find yourself defending the Governor, directly or indirectly, if he carries this to confrontation and gets himself crosswise with some judge? But, hey, that was a good, thoughtful response regarding Moore. You know, I just don't believe I could defend someone I knew or believed was guilty, or prosecute someone I felt was innocent. I just couldn't make a game or "lawyer wit contest" out of it. But I know our system of justice (flawed as it might be) depends on folks like you who can do that.
And if you'd moderate some on your beliefs about the Christian right, I'd vote for you.
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