Date: Tue Nov 18 15:07:44 1997
To: Frank Grose
From: Rob Weinberg
Subject: Re: Night Off
At 01:19 PM 11/18/97 0600, you wrote:
I would be opposed to such a law for several reasons. (Even though I suspect that is a loaded question, I'm going to tell you just how I feel.) A law requiring a depiction of Jesus in every classroom would be promoting the Christian religion. A crucifix would be indicative of a Catholic influence (since the Christian cross is empty). I would be in favor of the national flag (and pledging allegiance to it) since such would tend to engender nationalistic pride. I don't have any strong feelings about the state flag(s), I suppose.
You're right. It was a loaded question. But it had nothing to do with flags. Flags in that context were merely symbols of government authority in juxtaposition to the crucifix and depiction.
Would a cross, but not a crucifix, change your answer? I didn't know the latter was a symbol of Catholicism, or I'd have just said a cross.
Do I understand you correctly to say that you would oppose a picture of Jesus and a cross or other symbol of Christianity as a required ornament in the classroom though?
You may well take issue with the next. Immigrants who came to America (after we were a nation), came knowing and accepting that the predominant religion was (broadly Christian), and that our government was founded upon biblical principals. I haven't check the casualty list, but I'd be surprised to find many Muslims and Buddhists among them, especially lists from our earlier...As long as they weren't promoting, I wouldn't object. Would it make a difference if I were non-Christian? I honestly don't think so. The atheist and agnostic are in a little different category since they have no professed religion, per se. Hopefully enough of whatever religion was being EXERCISED would cause them to get interested enough to consider their position. I guess, to me, any religion is better than no religion (in that most recognized real religions have some organized and respected set of rules for living) at all. Of course, I, like each individual, thinks his respective religion in "the right" religion. If I didn't think mine was better, I'd switch.
I think you dodged the question by switching issues on me and maybe rewriting the question after going on the flag tangent. If I understand you right, you're saying that we may have become multi-cultural in the last 150+ years, but if so, any immigrants that made it so, did so knowing the WASP land they were coming into and should adjust their expectations accordingly, and have no right to try and change it. I think you've got some fundamental logic errors in this approach, as in presumptions about what we were, what the first amendment said and says, and who are the ones trying to change things. You don't see immigrants making the big issue about it, it's the people who were born and bred here for generations that have done so. Like you, I don't have time to address this in more detail at the moment. My grandfather and grandmother on my mother's side were Russian immigrants. My father's grandparents on his mother's side were immigrants from Poland, and on his father’s side from Austria, I suspect. I can make a lot of arguments that immigrants came here with a view of the religious protections and freedoms that differ from those you assume today, although I'd admit that the view of the rights they expected during the 1900's through 1930's are different than those post-1960 or so.
My denomination, (I was wondering how long it would take you to get around to asking. ; ) I deliberately didn't tell you voluntarily.)? I am Assembly of God. You can rightfully call me fundamentalist and evangelistic.
Aha! ; ) Maybe it was I who didn't ask because I didn't want to make assumptions about you based on labels, so I withheld asking. But it's kinda' cool you didn't volunteer too, just to see how long it would take before I asked. You'll have to fill me in on how you differ from other Protestant denominations like the Baptists.
You pose some very interesting questions. I'm compelled by them, as well. But I need more time to consider (and research) my answer to the others. I'm hooked on this dialog also. Thanks for being there. : )
Selah! Take your time. Rob
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